A question for all faiths.


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A question came to me yesterday seemingly out of the blue.

“Does G-d have a G-d?”

Does any religion address this? Do any of you have a suggestion, or answer? I am seriously curious now because I never once thought about this before. Please feel free to offer up an opinion or a belief, perhaps even an explanation.

Copyright ©2008 Veronica Romm

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About veronicaromm

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42 Responses to A question for all faiths.

  1. 1poet4man says:

    ahhh, the problem of predecessors will always come up in any Newtonian discussion of God…”In the beginning was the word and the word was God.”

    Which suggest that “God” first existed as sound, which leads to the question – what made this sound and what was there to hear…and already you have doubts and dualities…

    For me your question is likely unanswerable…and certainly not by the bible, or any other tome or text written by man…we are after all discussing the vastness of the totality of all things – The Great Is…I’d say that our minds are flimsy when it comes to answering these kinds of questions…

    Of course all of these predecessors questions disappear if “Life” is thought about from a quantum frame – that all time happens simultaneously – that the beginning, middle, or end are constructs or measurements of Newton and of not much validity to answering questions about “God” or creation, however much it may be entertaining.

    Great post, with some very interesting comments, it has been a while since I have visited your site – you are doing nicely.

    Thank you and Be Well
    Poetman

  2. repetitions says:

    It wasn’t the ideas for which I was apologizing. I just want to be really careful to not be one of those Christians who makes comments on stuff like this and comes across as a real prick. I believe what I said deeply and don’t apologize for it, but I want people that read it to know I am attempting to write from a standpoint of Christian humility rather than boastful arrogance. I never want to come across as the later. Thanks for approving my LONG comment. :)

  3. veronicaromm says:

    @repetitions: Thank you for sharing and never apologize for expressing yourself. You really made a lot of salient points and I am so glad you shared. As a kid I started questioning math b/c I just didn’t and still don’t believe that all the equations are true instead they are attempts to explain certain universal ideas. I could go on with this for some time too, so I will say great comment and come by anytime. Veronica

  4. repetitions says:

    This is a question that everyone asks themselves, even if they are unwilling to admit their preoccupation with the notion of God. I’m a Christian and while I can attempt to approach this concept from a philosophical/theoretical standpoint, it is impossible to do so without reflecting the teachings of the Bible…which I hold to be the ultimate source of truth, because it is in essence God’s revelation of himself to us.

    A few purely (I hope) philosophical points that have already been touched on by others:
    1) It is interesting that some people say it is arrogant to assume we can know God (originalthinker) while others think it is arrogant to think we decide for ourselves who God is and what our relationship with him should look like (Philip Brookes)…or his relationship other possible deities. Neither of the cited individuals was alone in their assertions. I’m merely using them as representatives for their respective opinions.
    2) Personally, I find it somewhat amusing that we all think that we each get to formulate our own personal concept of God as if our concept will then become true in reality. I’m really not trying to be sarcastic in that statement, but I’m sure it comes across that way. Please forgive me if anything in this comment comes off that way. It is not my intention. I’m just trying to state the obvious. However, there is just no way that our universe would operate on a system of truth that is subjective to what each individual thinks is true. A few comments have included the concept of God’s god being mathematics. The assumption therein (I’m assuming anyway) is that mathematics is an agreed upon system of truth that can be proven. Of course there are still concepts that exist in theory, but we are still under the assumption that one day those theories will be solved and the truth will become more obvious. In no way does that mean we are currently making up the truth behind the math as we go. The truth of the solution to various mathematical equations is true whether or not we currently have known solutions to those equations. All that to say, truth about God, who he is and how he relates to us as individuals does not change depending on what I think, feel, sense or know about him. He, I believe, exists independently of my or your knowledge or concept of him. We may think whatever we want, but that doesn’t change what is true about God no more than a renegade mathematician coming up with the wrong solution to an equation simply because he wants to think outside the box. I’m all for thinking outside the box or even having my own assumptions about God challenged, but to assume that I get to develop my own system of truth and you get to decide what is true for you is a foolish notion in my opinion.
    3) It would honestly take more faith for me to believe that the universe in all its complexity and wonder could just happen (even over the course of billions of years), than to believe that an intelligent being created it all. The question of our origin is the question that most settles my mind on the existence of God and the truth of the Bible. I know there is a God simply by looking around me at his amazing creation. I cannot bring myself to assume that it all just happened at random. That assumption leads me to believe that there is not only a God, but that he created all there is. Because he created all that exists, we are subject to him and his system of truth. Our task then becomes discovering what he has defined as truth. Lucky for us he revealed truth in the Bible!

    Some observations that are philosophical in nature, but clearly driven by my belief in Scripture:
    1) In Romans 1, Paul says that we are able to tell from the universe around us that there is indeed a God, but that is not enough to know him personally. No amount of inner searching is going to get us to the point where we know him. We will not find him within us if we just search deeper or look more intently within our innermost being. In fact God cannot reside within us because: A) we are not God in and of ourselves and B) God cannot dwell within us because we are sinners. In fact Romans also tells us that no one seeks after God. We all seek after our own desires. God has to seek us out…and he did by sending his Son, Jesus Christ, to die on our behalf and by raising him from the dead so that we also might have the hope of resurrection if we truth in him.
    2) In the Gospel of John, Jesus says “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life…no one comes to the Father, but through me.” Jesus wasn’t just a good man. If he was, then he was a crazy man, because he claimed to be not only the Way to God, but he claimed to be the standard of Truth and the source of Life. Only one who is God himself can claim these things. Jesus was not willing to share these traits with anyone. A quick reading of the Gospels will clarify that point easily.
    3) Jesus’ claim to be “Life” is significant. Other religions claim their God’s were good people, but only Jesus claims to hold the solution to death…that inevitable event which we will all face. Every other religious founder or prophet is dead. They lived, they died and they stayed dead. Jesus not only claims to be “Life” he actually backed up that claim. He was crucified, buried and rose again on the third day according to the Bible. He did this to conquer sin which causes our death and death itself. Personally, I must trust the only one who has ever defeated death. That’s the only hope this world has. I’m sure, at this point, most will question the validity of the claims of Jesus and his followers concerning his resurrection. Of such questioning there is no end. Suffice it to say for this already very long comment’s purposes that Jesus’ claims are historically well founded. Might I suggest this article (http://mommiedaze.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/did-the-resurrection-really-happen) for a good starter discussion on this topic?

    For those who made it this far, I apologize for the length. I started writing and got on a roll…obviously. Hopefully it was of benefit to someone out there.

  5. hughvic says:

    No. I mean, yes. Er, ah, that must’ve happened to, like, Barry White on a daily basis, but not to yerztrooly. So if we’re gonna be one on The Luuuuuv Thang, you go first: blog reviews aside, what are your 10 fave flicks?

    Hugo

    P.S. Remember that the gods of Olympus had parents, or godparents or Dutch uncles and aunts or whatever: the Titans; four of them, to each of whom was attributed one of the classical elements and one of the defining human attributes. My favorite Titan was (is?) Mnemosyne. I’m not sure whose daughter she was/is, but I’m almost certain that it wasn’t Joseph Campbell.

  6. veronicaromm says:

    @ hughvic: LOL, are you serious? Well I am surprised. Thanks for the great comment(s). V

  7. hughvic says:

    Calling all Catholics! Notify the Holy Office at once! Or at least the National Enquirer! Something has happened that has never happened in the history of the EARTH! And the proof of it is right here on THIS BLOG!

    A young lady told me, “I am one with you on the love thing.”

    That never happens.

    Hugo

  8. Rodibidably says:

    veronica,

    “@rodibilably The question is for each individual and the G-d of their beliefs and understanding. As the title of the post states this is a question for all faiths.”

    My point is that some faiths already have multiple gods built into them (ancient roman, greek, and norse gods would be the most familiar to many people). In this case the idea of “god having a god” would be implicitly built into the foundation of the belief system.

    While other religions would consider speaking of multiple gods to be heresy (a strict reading of the 10 commandments or the koran which would cover 3 rather large religions prevalent in the world today). In the strict fundamentalist interpretation of these beliefs there can be no “other” god, since the concept itself is forbidden by their faith.

    Other religions are based more on spirituality or oneness with nature or the concept that god is everything (something along the lines of buddhism or Native American beliefs). In this view there is no literal “god” because “god” is in everything.

    And then there are us atheists for whom the idea of god or religion or faith is nothing more than “the Opiate of the Masses” and a creation of our own minds.

  9. veronicaromm says:

    @hughvic: I am one with you on the love thing.

    @Ash: I never claimed to know the answer, nor that it would be decided here on my blog.

    You give a good explanation and then RUIN it by assuming various things about me and some of the commenters, being smug in the process.

    Why would people submit to a concept? Are you kidding?

    Perhaps I am not a sinner, so not I do not agree. However, I don’t WANT to hurt your feelings, the obvious difference between you and I.

    G-d says… have you chatted with him lately? Or are you referring to the Bible. They are not one and the same.

    @Platowannabe: A friend and I think it is mathematical as well.

  10. hughvic says:

    Love is neither a concept nor a feeling; and nor is it a human construct. It is an English word for something that is. It is G-d who says that He is Love. In Love we do not essay to know the Subject in the terms drawn from our own limited, objective experience. Love is not objective. It is not functional. It is not an artifact. Love is the Subject; the Subject is Love.

  11. Ash says:

    You’re trying to put your mind around something that you can’t understand. People have been asking that question for thousands of years…do we think that we, here and now, on this blog, are going to answer this question?

    We can only go to Scripture (the Bible) for the answer, and as the men described earlier, God has ALWAYS been. He was never created. Can you fathom that? No…because you have no concept of “eternity”…”forever”…”always” – how could we? We can only filter things through our understanding of “time”. We know nothing else. We have not experienced eternity, so we can’t understand it.

    God says, “I AM, that I AM”. He was, is and will be. He is eternal. No one created Him.

    As far as God being a concept…why would people submit themselves to a concept? What do they profit from that? Nothing! Maybe just fancying their own imaginations (like “Dennis”).

    Why do we need God? Because we are sinners in need of a Savior (John 3:16 will start you on your journey for the answer). Don’t agree. That doesn’t hurt my feelings. You need to search this answer our for yourself.

  12. Platowannabe says:

    When it comes down to it, I think if there is a God, its god is Mathematics.

  13. hughvic says:

    Love.

  14. veronicaromm says:

    @hughvic: I thought about the hall of mirrors, and I guess that would almost make sense somehow.

    “In the beginning he was IT” is what concerns me. How? Why?

  15. hughvic says:

    Sorry for misspelling your name, Veronica. It occurs to me that there must be recorded rabbinical teachings on this question. Also, my friend Bad makes an interesting point. As there might be many “higher” heavens beyond our ken, have their been also doctrines that contemplate undisclosed uber-deities viz our G-d? I must say, though, it seems to me to set up a hall-of-mirrors effect: and might that Overgod have an Overgod, Undergod to yet another Undergod-Overgod viz an Undergod-Overgod viz an Undergod-Overgod…

    No. In the beginning, He was IT.

  16. hughvic says:

    Veronnica, like many a mystical question yours is only superficially absurd. I’m not saying that its mere mysticality somehow enobles it as worthwhile, but it does strike this blogger, on its merits, as a pretty worthwhile exercise.

    I have no idea what orthodox Islam would make of your question, but I should think that in Protestantism it would not compute at all, whereas in Catholicism it would cause one to rethink the meaning of, among other things, the doctrine of intercession.

    But for me the loudest alarms go off in the synagogue, because of the challenge your question poses to the prohibition against idolatry; for if idolatry is the elevation, to the rightful place of the Ultimate, those things which are of great importance but which are nonetheless merely penultimate, then our worship of G-d as the Ultimate is idolatry if in fact G-d is merely penultimate.

    This would turn the structure of Judaism itself upside down, it seems to me, to the extent that Judaism is a system for the prevention of idolatry.

    Does that sound too Left Field?

  17. veronicaromm says:

    @ Dave: Interesting. You have certainly put the time into faith.

    @ Philip Brookes: I think for thi question I am assuming there is a G-d. You hit on some points that I think of, in terms of being created in G-d’s image. I guess my question is, who was he created from?

    @Lance: Thank you for sharing the different beliefs they are helpful to me as I try to understand the various faiths.
    I was just wondering what YOU thought? What is your theory or idea?

    @safuddin: Thank you.

    @manashiori: Thank you for sharing.

    @Gareth: Occam’s Razor, great theory. Simplest solution, hmmm?

    @originalthinker: Dennis, great name for a G-d. Sounds like a chill dude.

    @countyparson: Thank you. Your answers are very clear.

    @Arold Steptoe: Wish it did, but no.

  18. Arold Steptoe says:

    The Bible says there is only one God. Hope that answers your question.

  19. The Christian faith teaches that God is the only God:
    Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I
    am the last; and beside me there is no God. (Isaiah 44:6)

    This claims that He is both unique: ‘beside me the is no God’; that He is self-existent, ‘I am the first’ and that He is complete and perfect, ‘I am the last’.

  20. originalthinker says:

    Wouldn’t it be nice if we lowly creatures had all the answers?
    Im an agnostic so I believe something started everything, I choose to call my “god” Dennis, I like the name and he doesnt mind it either.
    Point being, somethings we are never meant to have the answers to, and to think otherwise would be just plain arrogant.
    thank you though for putting it out there.

  21. Gareth says:

    Apply Occam’s razor and keep things simple.

  22. manashiori says:

    For me, there is only one God. My religion bases everything in the Bible and my heart and faith lies in it – so let me share some verses:

    Exodus 20:2-3: “I am the Lord your God…. You shall have no other gods before me.”

    Deuteronomy 32:39: “See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me.”

    John 17:3: “This is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” (what Jesus said when he was crucified).

    Great question and forum. Have a great day!

  23. Saifuddin says:

    BismillaharRahmanirRahim

    as-salaamu ‘alaikum. veronicaromm, you wrote:

    ““Does G-d have a G-d?””

    The short answer, no.

    -Saifuddin

  24. Lance says:

    Good question.

    As far as the God of the Bible. He is His God.

    He does all things for the sake of His glory.

    He will often say, “that _____ may know that I am the LORD.”

    Paul writes in Philippians 2 that one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

    Yahweh loves His glory . . . as He should, for He is perfect.

    Thanks for the opportunity to respond.

  25. What an interesting discussion. I’m always intrigued to hear people’s viewpoints.
    I always find the questions of “whose God” rather revealing – it essentially suggests that ‘we create God’ in our imagination/understanding, and that falls a long way short of what I believe God to be. Different people’s attempts to forensically examine the mystery, resulting in a variety of different stories, doesn’t change the facts – it just changes the perception of those facts.
    Rather than us being the author of God, I believe God is the author of us. And He is ‘real’. In the same way that we can’t just wish that annoying car in front of us on the road to move out of our way – ignoring the reality will result in a crash – so God won’t conform to our wishful thinking, he’s real and has his own parameters irrespective of whether we recognise them correctly or not.
    I agree that God creates us ‘in His image’ – that is, with a moral compass, creativity, etc… – but not that we are our own Gods. That’s just usurping the word for purposes so much beneath the true meaning of God.
    I guess the answer to this question might be better addressed if we first questioned whether there IS such a thing as a “God”. Is this universe just an amazing soup of electrons, protons, neutrons and whatever else we think it is, randomly swirling around and eventually making all sorts of incredible living beings (in which case I don’t see how a “God” is relevant), or were we in fact created by some incredibly intelligent and powerful being/s? If God is defined as the creator of the universe, I believe that, as far as our logical processes and intellect could possibly assess, He must basically be ‘the ultimate power’ and therefore there is none ‘before’ or ‘higher’.

  26. Dave says:

    I was raised Mormon, converted to Islam when I was in my early 20s, and de-converted later. Mormonism holds that humans can become the “god” of their own universe, and that “god” was once a mortal being like ourselves. Islam varies; to a lot of Sufis, like Ibn Al-Arabi, God is more of a transcendent principle than a sentient being, while to most Salafi types he’s an anthropomorphic creator although they would still consider him uncreated and unique and the most high. These days, to the extent that I “believe” in a higher order, I don’t really assign it any characteristics and therefor I’d feel a bit silly saying it has a “god” itself since the question doesn’t fit the case. Interesting idea though.

  27. veronicaromm says:

    @ Stushie sounds good.

    @Romi, don’t freak I have no idea why I thought of it and I am learning as I read the comments.

    @rodibilably The question is for each individual and the G-d of their beliefs and understanding. As the title of the post states this is a question for all faiths.

    @bhaanu I think you and I have that spiritual leaning, so I agree with you absolutely. Yet as you can see many people have their own views.

    Thank you for the lovely comments, I am learning a lot. veronicaromm

  28. Heather says:

    You probably dont want to know much about my view on this one, but I agree with whoever said God isnt a person, but a concept. And Im not really sure that a concept can even possibly have a God. Because then the concept would have a concept and so on.. I personally dont have a particular religion. Maybe we are all our own God? And if you think of it that way, then maybe God’s God is..
    Ah screw it.
    I hate when I cant put into words what Im thinking. :/

  29. stushie says:

    You’re asking a question that the theologain Anselm of Canterbury answered ten centuries ago. His thought is this:

    God is, by definition, a being greater than anything that can be imagined.
    Existence both in reality and in imagination is greater than existence solely in one’s imagination.
    Therefore, God must exist in reality; if He did not, God would not be a being greater than anything that can be imagined.

    In other words, it doesn’t matter how many gods of the galaxies you can imagine, you still end up with One Supreme Being.

  30. romi41 says:

    That’s a fantastic question with endless potential for discussion…I have no idea what a possible answer could be, but I liked how the first comment really broadened the issue….what I wonder though, is if the answer is “yes”, then can we ask the question again, and again, and again???

    Wow, now I’m freaking myself out, haha ;-)

  31. Outdoors2 says:

    Good Generator V…;)

  32. Bad says:

    Some gnostic religions held that the God of this world (in their case, the Judeo-Christian God) was actually more akin to a Demigod, and the true God was higher and more secret. Might want to check into that for more detail.

  33. tysdaddy says:

    Can anyone even give an answer to this question that begins to make sense. As many have said, God is such an unimaginable concept. If we can’t even consider the unknowable, how can we possible go even deeper?

    Food for thought, indeed.

    Now my head hurts!

  34. Bhaanu says:

    I read all of Veronicas poems and writings with great interest . I love her poems very much because they are not just rhyming verses. They’r expressions that flow from life- experiences. One can feel the feelings flow through as we read them. It touches us deeply . It did to me. Truth cannot be mimicked. Truth is always appreciated. And this topic is the one of my interest I thought I can put in a few lines. Thanks for letting me do so.

  35. alanlee67 says:

    Now that is an interesting question. lemme think about it and get back to you. Thanks for joining up on stickam.

  36. Bhaanu says:

    God is not a person. God is concept. God is omnipresent.and Omnipotent.U have all the answers within U.(All U have to do is go deep within urself where there is no noise, no thought .. U have all the answers there. It’s not easy as it sounds. )God has no beginning or end. God is neither born nor dies. U will never find God if u search for HIM. because U r that! It’s ur responsibility to realize ur godliness ..the Godly power in U.. U r the God. So God has no God, He’s U and me. when we work together for a common purpose, selflessly, we see how much we can change, how much we can accomplish, and the credit goes to each one, for each one has done his part.Religions are just path ways , and they don’t take U to him..unless we follow what religion teaches us. All religions say almost the same thing abt God. But people fight over the outer form of religion unaware of the core concept of where it leads us. So there are 2 views . one is from the inside. the other is from outside. To know the truth we must see things from inside. outside forms are always deluding. and realize the oneness of everything. That feeling of oneness is godliness.

  37. Outdoors2 says:

    Who’s your Daddy?
    or Mommy for that Matter!

  38. Rodibidably says:

    I think the first question would be to define the “god” you are referring to. Is the god you are asking about allah, vishnu, buddha, jesus, jehova, thor, anubis, zeus, etc?

    Then once one understands WHICH god (out of so many) that you’re referring to, there are many interpretations of each of those “gods” (for christians alone there is the young earth creationist god, the catholic god, the old earth creationist god, the god who sent katrina because Pat Robertson doesn’t like gay people, any many more)

    I’d be interested on your views on this subject, and I would like to invite you to post your reply to an open question to all believers, on my blog:

    http://potomac9499.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/an-open-question-to-all-believers/

    This discussion has been going on for well over a month now, and it’s great to hear more views from different perspectives as the debate continues.

    I am asking in all sincerity, because I do actually want to understand differing view points, and since you seem to be curious about spirituality and faith, I feel your input would be relevant.

    Thank you in advance.

  39. I wasn’t required to follow a strict pattern of religious training, so I discovered my god through some life experiences. One of my understandings was that to think of a singular god was ignoring the complexity of our lives and world. Thanks for letting me share with view with you.

  40. veronicaromm says:

    @my furry freak , Precisely. That is exactly the context I was thinking about it in.

  41. Is there only one god or many different gods for all the different galaxies in our every beginning and ending universe? That comment doesn’t answer your question, but puts into context the complexity of a discussion of God. From your Furry Freak Bro

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